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INTP women

topic posted Thu, February 8, 2007 - 10:37 PM by  Jen
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Hi,

I'm new here so be gentle if I raise a topic that has been done to death.

I'm an INTP woman and I'm just wondering how rare we are considering that INTPs make up about 1% of the population and its mostly a masculine personality type.

I'm specifically interested in behavioural problems of INTP women - I want to see whether some of my issues are related to being an INTP or bugs all of my very own, or whether its other people who just dont get us who are the problem.

What sort of difficulties / behaviour problems have you experienced as an INTP woman?
posted by:
Jen
offline Jen
Los Angeles
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  • Hmm, i dont' think i know any INTP women...
    • I don't know any INTP women either. I think many gals in the US who are "T" have extra challenges regarding social acceptance. Being different is hard. Solution? Move to a place that will accept it better. :)
      • Jen
        Jen
        offline 0
        Hi Ilan,

        I'm actually an Australian.

        (Beverly Hills zip code is the only US one I know thanks to the show!)

        I guess I get told I'm 'agressive' a lot, but I dont think I am and I'm certainly not trying to be. I just tell it like it is, and dont suffer fools very well, and easily frustrated by people who cant keep up. If a man said the same thing, people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

        Surely there are some more INTP chicks out there......would love to hear your experiences.
        • it might be worth your while to check out intp central - i forget the address, but if you google 'intp central' you should find it pretty quick. that's where i personally would check first.

          tribe is great, don't get me wrong, but that's a pretty big hub over there for intps

          :-]

          -s
  • Hi -- I'm new here too, and am an INTP gal.

    I didn't realize this type was rare for women .. there do seem to be a fair amount of women in this group though (even a few other bellydancers -- hi, Ashara and Ziah!).

    I guess the main problem I find with having this personality type is that my thinking sense is often at war with my intuitive sense. Don't forget that, in Jungian terms, sensations are concerned with everything sensorily perceptible in the present moment (i.e. HERE! NOW!), while intuitives are concerned with everything BUT. So we're dealing with a lot of data that's hard to share with those who can't see it.

    But my thinking side DEMANDS it be able to articulate this data before acting on it; and, before I can do that, I have to stack it up and make intellectual sense out of it -- which is very hard to do. (Just a tad animus-dominated, eh?)

    I've often used my thinking sense to rationalized my way into making disastrous decisions that my intuitive sense knew full well would be horrible; but since I was unable to stack the "facts" rationally and conclusively enough for my thinking sense to agree, I discarded my intuitive knowledge and ended up with egg on my face (or worse).

    I'm not sure if this is a personality tick peculiar to INTPs or INTP women (or just to me) .... Do male INTPs find the intuitive at odds with the thinking sense? And, if they do, which do they favor?

    Does this help? What kinds of problems are you dealing with?
    • I've been dealing with my intuition since I can remember. My thinking sometimes tries to get in the way. I do my best to pay attention to which one turns out to be right. And when I get a strong hit on my intuition, I go with it - I'm well aware that my thinking brain does not have all the facts.

      H
      • Yes, I've been learning to do the same. Perhaps that is the prime difference between NTs and STs -- NTs know very well how much of the picture is missing, while STs think that what they see is all there is.

        I had an ST roommate who couldn't even *comprehend* that parts of the picture might be missing, or that needed to be envisioned. Every time I would suggest getting something new for the house (like a mesh rack for the kitchen), he couldn't see how it would be helpful. Once installed, he would admit he couldn't imagine how he'd ever lived without it!
    • Hi Tandava... I find it hard sometimes to not try to be a Sensor and to just let my iNtuition go. I'm a really bad S, and when I try to use the world around me to make a "logical" decision in a conscious manner it doesn't work and I end up being wrong. If I can actually turn off that part of my brain and just let my unconscious do the work, I tend to do much much better. It's when I over think things using exterior influence that I make dumb mistakes. I'm trying to let the iNtuition do its work by not telling myself what I should do... I read on one of the INTP websites that if INTPs can work on their Extraverted iNtuition, they can really live up to their full potential. That really stuck with me. I'll have to find that website now...

      But that said, yes, I do like to analyze the data first, but I have to do it A) in my own time and B) in my own little world, and C) without outside influences except perhaps my own looking for information to enhance my understanding of the subject. I'm an information junkie and i LOVE research. So... Yeah, Tandava, I can see what you mean about the Thinking and iNtuitive sides being somewhat at odds, but they can also work together really really well if you let them also use your Perception to keep yourself open to all the possibilities.

      Ramble ramble.... where's the coffee? :D
    • "So we're dealing with a lot of data that's hard to share with those who can't see it. "

      I was just telling a woman in my dance company about this. My problem is that when critiquing at rehearsal I give more negatives than positives because I just can't keep up with all the details that my brain saw, I forget half of the tweaks I saw needing to be made and so the "sandwich" method of critiquing (say something nice, then the negative, then something nice again) gets totally thrown out the window wth me just trying to articulate all the bits of information (and me dance at the same time!). So the dancers don't always feel as postive about a rehearsal as I think they should because I know we got a lot done but they want the yummy warm feeling of me saying "Good job" often on top of having got work done. Maybe some day I will find a way to resolve this.
      • I find there is a huge difference between "Good job, but..." and "Good job, and..."

        After the ... I prefer to say "here's what I think will make it even better:".

        H
      • Ziah... I can relate to what you're saying so so so much. You are NOT alone. I constantly have trouble saying positive things, and it's not that I don't have positive things to say... but my overwhelming desire to "fix and solve" things tends to outweigh the niceties of "I loved this..." and "you are great at this..."

        I have to consciously use the sandwich method - or kiss, kick, kiss, as I've heard it called. But if I let my natural tendencies take over, that method goes out the window.

        I think it's harder for women, particularly women involved in mostly-women activities like bellydance to live an NT life. We are expected to be nice, soft, and emotional. But we NT women aren't like this. We solve puzzles, we think philosophically, we think, we critique. I've come to the conclusion that there will be people who can deal with me, and the rest can either try to understand me, or I must decide to to understand them.... hopefully both. :)
    • I had that problem when i was in my teens, after some REALLY bad experiences i decided to let the intellect have the final say in matters of health and money, and the intuition in matters of people, jobs and the heart.
  • Good luck. I am starting to feel my struggle as an INTP man even.
    • Unsu...
       
      > I find there is a huge difference between "Good job, but..." and "Good job, and..."
      > After the ... I prefer to say "here's what I think will make it even better:".

      When I hear these, it sounds merely rhetorical.
      • that's because you deal in facts, not feelings. It sounds ridiculous to people who actually hear the words, or like some bizarre manipulative timewaster to those who are motivated to solve problems. It's because you don't take "facts" personally, even when it means you're not living up to expectations. disappointed in yourself, yes. offended or discouraged, not so much. You probably only feel really upset when you thought you were perfect, which INTPs rarely assume they are.
  • I dated one for years, and kinda-sorta still date her, I guess.

    Also, I thought I read somewhere that there were slightly more INTP women and slightly more INTJ men, though the ratio of INTP men to INTP women is really insignificant.

    Anyway, she is a very extreme case of INTP. Being about 52% INTP and 48% INTJ (according to the test results), I see a lot of the same personality traits that I have. However, many of her INTP traits are much stronger than mine. I generally don't care for socializing unless it is with the right people, and I don't like big crowds. She would be perfectly happy with one friend/mate and hates people to the point she doesn't go to places if she knows there is going to be a hordes of people. I generally try to avoid these crowds, but I'll go into Target on Sunday if I'm passing by. She prefers to wait till Monday when the store is empty.

    We are both very analytical, rational and logical. I think I balance out the three traits much better. She can be so logical at times that the things she does, while logical, aren't really logical to the rest of the world. For example, most people have a tray to hold their utensils in one drawer. She has the spoons on the same side as the sugar bowl and the forks and knives next to the fridge. Most people think this is a bit off, but it is perfectly logical to her.

    I will socialize a little bit, preferably with a select group of people. I'll also "fake" socialization to acquire a goal. She prefers to socialize with three living creatures. Her two cats and me. She will "fake" socialization to acquire goals only when absolutely necessary. It is next to impossible to get her to go out to a people-oriented social gathering, like a party.

    I don't think these are behavioural problems, but from the majority of the population's perspective, they want/need/feel secure/like it when other people think for them/worry about what other people think about them. INT*'s generally only care about a significant other and a few close friends. The rest of the world is just there and not relevant to our immediate needs, which makes the rest of the people think we are a little off.
    • Hmm,

      I've met a woman or six like that. Painfully attractive, and highly oblivious.
      Not of course that i'm not oblivious....
  • I would try not to see them as bugs. They are what make you who you are. I think I read somewhere that our type is, in general, extremely critical for various reasons. I have found that when dealing with others it can be beneficial to try and suspend judgement on both sides of the equation. Everyone is imperfect. This also allows us to give our feeling side a little excercise which can only help to deepen our understanding.
  • As an INTP woman, I've noticed i don't "get away with" just about anything that an INTP male does.

    A male is "traditionally" seen as intellectual, maybe even a little rude to people "beneath" him or intellectually inferior.
    Being these things myself, as a woman, I am considered aggressive, rude, arrogant, even incompetent etc.

    I dated a fellow INTP, and noticed specifically that other women were especially attracted to the same qualities in him that men were UNattracted to in me.
    I was even reprimanded once long ago by an employer for agreeing with a male co-worker on an issue we both found humerous. The male? Not a word his way. It was socially acceptable for HIM to laugh at whatever the subject. *eye roll*

    INTP traits are, again, "traditional" male traits.
    It's a bitch being a female INTP in a very extroverted and conventional world.

    -erin
    • That should not "play" well with any T's sense of fairness. Or any F's sense of how folks might feel.

      I wonder what would happen if this situation was discussed after the hear of the moment.

      H
      • H,
        Which situation were you referring to as "after the heat...?" The whole of being an INTP woman? Or the employer part? If you were implying the work situation: I sat there, was irritated, and said what i had to say. It was years ago. I laughed then; i laugh now.

        At this stage in my life, as an INTP woman, i've learned how to 'play the game'...although i don't play it very well. Alas, I have more than my share of moments in retaliation. I'm at least that intelligent, which has served me somewhat well, though I will always feel like a huge fake in doing so. A long time ago, I realized that while idealism is cute, it certainly comes with no paycheck...and rent was due yesterday. : )

        Cute cat.

        -Erin
        • Erin,

          I was talking about the employer part.

          And now that I think about it some more, there can be some incredibly subtle rules about human interaction, especially regarding group behavior and the learning curve for people trying to either join or interact with a group.

          The cat's name was Denia. She was pretty impressive.

          H
          • Now that you've got me thinking about it, the employer deal, man...not to go off on too much of a tangent here, but it pinpoints EXACTLY the difference between being a male and a female INTP. That guy and i were so similar in so many ways, yet at this specific job, he was adored, flirted with, considered "an asshole" but in the way many women consider positive; i was merely tolerated. Note, though, that this was a huge pharmaceutical corporation, we were both young (i'm still a baby now at 24) and lowly on the food chain. Weird things happen in the realm of the entry-level job.

            Of course he and i got along fantastically. Oh the irony...

            Something more relevent: are you an INTP? You must be male. :P

            • I self-identify as an INTP male. This self-identification is frequently accepted without question by those "in the know".

              :)

              H
            • I had a contract once where my manager was a fairly total Idjit. He hung out with another manager who was a different sort of total Idjit (all about appearance and no substance). I generally stayed out of their way, as I was the guy who made sure everything worked in spite of these two guys. There was a woman on the team, and she and I got along together pretty well. It was clear she wanted to learn how to get along and "be one of they guys". One day she made a joke at my expense when the 2 idjits were there. I could tell they didn't know it was a joke, and if I had cared about staying around that place I would have said something to a) let them know she was joking, and b) let her know that I knew what she was trying to do, and offer to explain the subtlety of where the boundaries were in that situation and how she managed to be on the "wrong" side of a boundary there. To my discredit, I didn't have the energy (at that time) to do either, and years later I kinda wish I had mustered the energy to at least address (b).

              H
    • OTOH, try being an INTP male in a mostly female environment... Assuming you can keep people from deciding you're gay or after the children as a whole... you tend to get _nasty_ exchanges anytime you talk about how to do something better.
    • "A male is "traditionally" seen as intellectual, maybe even a little rude to people "beneath" him or intellectually inferior.
      Being these things myself, as a woman, I am considered aggressive, rude, arrogant, even incompetent etc.

      I dated a fellow INTP, and noticed specifically that other women were especially attracted to the same qualities in him that men were UNattracted to in me. "

      OK, I'm late to the game here, but I just joined this tribe. Erin, you really hit the nail on the head with this comment. I often find that I can't pick up on all the social rules, especially dealing with groups of women, and I've definitely paid the price. And before I knew I was INTP, I've always known that if I were a guy with my personality, I'd be much luckier in love and just more socially accepted. I'm glad to have people who do understand me and love me in my life, but it definitely takes a special kind of person and time to know me.
      • I look at the social cues as a game, or a cypher. For me they are an intellectual challenge and its probably the only way i've made it as a salesman.
    • "It's a bitch being a female INTP in a very extroverted and conventional world."

      I'm an INTP (just found that out today! so cool to know). I've gone to great trouble to create a lifestyle, workplace and home life that works for me and nurtures my unique abilities and gives free reign to my independent nature and intellectual curiosity.

      I've developed an m.o. to participate in the conventional world on my terms, very successfully. One of my strategies is I am polite, and not just for the sake of it or what it gets me in return. Also I try to reserve making personal judgments about people and live by the golden rule.

      And I've always found highly intelligent, independent men attractive, and found that attraction reciprocated.

      Some books I've found useful: "How To Make People Like You In 90 Seconds Or Less", "48 Laws of Power" and "Fiirting 101." ; )
  • New here as well. I am an INTP woman, and frankly- it's difficult.

    We don't fit the conventional feminine mold in terms of attitudes and interests, so we come off as intimidating. We like men to laugh at our jokes, not the other way around.

    We read big books, not trashy fashion magazines that contain articles on how to 'keep' a man or the latest diet.

    We'd rather play chess than wash the floor.

    We don't enjoy making small talk with stupid people (family events are torturous!)

    Since we're not detail-oriented in the SJ sense, external appearances may be neglected (messy room, laundry, hair, whatever)

    We're not seen as nurturing, selfless, supportive, subordinate doormats.

    You won't find us in support/service/sales (people) positions (we won't be happy about it if we are!)

    Essentially, we threaten the established social order.

    How's that for bitchy? On a happy note, I did have a long-term (we're still close) relationship with a fellow, much older INTP man.
    • ....we threaten the social order, but don't necessarily mean to, unless we're pissed. :D

      Normally, just don't care about the social order... I just do what I do...
      • I think INTP's in general 'threaten' the social order. I don't think even 1% of my teachers in (k-12) school ever had any clue as to who i was. Several of them _used_ me to get other people to open up ( i put more effort into appearing social, sometimes, in school than i do now) but i think maybe three or four in all those years actually had a clue as to what i was really thinking.
        • I definitely know the feeling. My boss listed the characteristics he doesn't like about me, and they were all typical INTP traits. All through school I got similar repsonses. I definitely feel like people perceive me as a threat, particularly if I make a social faux pas.
    • I agre with most of what you said. I think I tend to intimidate people (not intentionnally of course) especially other women... I just realized that, my realtionships at work have always been hardest with women, I'm realizing that they are somewhat intimidatedd by me. I guess I don't correspond to what they expect of a woman.
  • I'm a 31-year-old virgin male, largely by choice since I don't want casual sex, but I don't do much dating. I'm either an INTP or an INTJ, depending on which version of the test I take, sometimes an INFP. Though I try to befriend a lot of women, I usually find out very quickly we either can't relate or relate on a level I would never consider girlfriend material.

    I would probably get along with an INTP woman quite well.
  • INTP Woman.

    Yeah, it tends to be a real pain in the ass ... not that i woul trade it for anything.

    Things that frustrate me:

    I enjoy clothing/products made for men, but they obviously don't do much for me in terms of fit.

    I get along with men better, hardly any female friends ... but I'm usually not interested in forming romantic attachments. i lose most of my guy friends because their insecure girlfriends don't like them hanging around me, or they begin to form romantic interest in me that I don't share.

    I get a lot of flack for dissapearing, or not having many friends.
    Tend to Feel VERY guilty when I need time alone.

    Behaviour problems?: Ha.

    I have a hard time completeing tasks, follow through ... I dislike obligation a great deal, and am not likely to agree to anything that takes up a chunk of my time unless I find it extremely valuable (I.E. i'm a fitness buff and have never missed a training schedule or a group run).

    I'm known to disapear for sometimes weeks, I'll turn off my phone, lose it ... let the battery die and not talk to anyone. I've turned on my phone after 21 days of absence to 26 messages from people, the last of which were extremely worried.

    I'm not good with comfrontation and have left relationships without saying anything, just stopped responding. I've left jobs the same way.
    Thats most likely the worst thing I've done.

    I'm a chronic bridge burner, i don't want last connections. I don't have the energy to maintain them and tend to not show up on the last day.

    I have trouble with talking, and tend to zone out when someone begins to tell me mondane details about their day. I have a hard time being interested and a harder time faking interest.

    I'm not good with networking, and stubborn enough to do everything on my own ... even though it's a million times more difficult, and have even more trouble forming romantic relationships ... or even interest.

    It's all just too much trouble to me, and why wouldn't it be? I have a lot more fun walking around on my own, and reading fat books about subjects that most people find boring.

    Anyway, a million more I'm sure. But I'll go on and stop at that.
    • Dada,

      Are you familiar with the concept of "locally optimal"?

      A lot of what you wrote was true for me when I was younger.

      H
      • Hmm, I'm not familiar with the term. Please explain.
        • Sorry - I've been away. "Locally Optimal" means "this is better than the other choices in the immediate vicinity."

          If the house is flooding, a locally-optimal solution is to stand on a chair. A better solution might be to go upstairs. Or climb a tree. Better still to be out of the area that is flooding.

          H
          • Here's a more pertinent example.

            Treating a symptom is locally-optimal.

            Treating the root cause is better.

            Sometimes one has to address both.

            H
      • H-man,

        Typical INTP … I know, but I actually started out my schooling in computer programming.

        So yes, I have a good idea of what Locally optimal is, or as you touched on in your latter posts, the even better globally optimal.

        Much easier when applied to machines, but can see what your getting at, at least as far as fixing/exploring the issues go. I think in general my deal is that I don't actually perceive many of the mentioned 'problems,' as actual problems. Logically I know that they probably hold me back, logically I know that my actions are often socially unacceptable, I know that they can annoy/frustrate me, etc. but somehow none of it bothers me enough to facilitate any sort of actual change.

        Though, I suspect that’s where the 'I was like that when I was younger' deal comes in … lets see here … I'm only 22 at this point. I figure: old enough to know the consequences of letting emotions/people get the better of me, too young(inexperienced) to truly understand the consequences of my behaviors.

        Until those consequences pile up to a noticeable enough height, I really don't see myself being motivated enough … or even strong enough to face up to those root causes.

        But Wait, how were you the same?
        When/How/Why did you change?
        • Dada,

          I don't have much time to reply now, so I'm writing this note to keep this topic "fresh" on my tribe topics queue.

          I'm generally being busy this week, but I do intend to respond in detail to your questions, and I suspect I will do it here as opposed to a private message.

          If it takes me more than a few days' time to do this, please ping me.

          H
        • OK, so here I go.

          I like what you say about not perceiving many of the mentioned 'problems' as actual problems. That 'rings' with me in that I spent my early life learning to 'survive', and that produced a *bunch* of "locally-optimal" behaviors that I carried with me. I heard folks question some of my behaviors but to me, their recommended alternatives were untenable - I saw "no way to get there from here". That, for me, is another example of locally-optimal. I was in a "relatively" good/functional space, and there was Danger in changing my behaviors or outlook.

          At 22, I was (near as I can remember) finishing college and entering grad school. I was considered an adult, and it wasn't that long ago that I was still "learning" and "coming into my own". I was not particularly interested in what I considered to be "regressing" back to an earlier age. Besides, I sure didn't see any good examples of *anybody* whose life really seemed to be working significantly better than mine. And if I did, I sure didn't see how I could "get there from here".

          One external difference between us seems to be that I went out of my way to never burn bridges. I wonder if our internal motivations might be closer; I liked "peace" - I got it by not burning bridges. If "peace" is important to you, it's *possible* that you go for separation for similar reasons.

          As for your comment that you don't get motivated until there are "sufficient" consequences, that is generally true for me and I have seen this a lot with other folks. Casteneda writes about this too - there is a section in one of his books where Don Juan says that people often back themselves into a corner, as that is one way/how they build power to do something. And there's no saying that once that power is built that one will face the root causes. There are choices - the Enneagram folks talk about the path of evolution and the path of devolution.

          In your earlier message you talk about not completing tasks and avoiding obligation. Some of the completion stuff can be P/J tendencies. For me, I avoided "expectation". I had a French teacher in highshool who was Real Impressed with my accent. She apparently therefore expected me to learn the language very easily. It wasn't easy for me to learn; to avoid the stress I just "destroyed" my accent and she eventually stopped paying attention to me.

          I was always really good with humor, and if I wanted to be alone folks could usually tell I was not being "funny" so they left me alone - I didn't need to disappear.

          I hated confrontation too. Confrontation, to me, always meant "it's over". I remember starting to date somebody when I was about 30. About 2 weeks into the relationship she started yelling at me for something, and I had the instant awareness that even though she was yelling at me she did *not* want the relationship to end. I ended up learning how to do confrontation Really Well in that relationship. I dislike confrontation, but I can do it now.

          I cannot handle mundane conversation either. And I'm find with ignorance, but can be intolerant of stupidity. I also dislike repeating myself. There are folks who quickly learn to not ask me to teach them stuff, as they need to hear it several times and I often do not tolerate that well.

          I do not network all that well either; I'm fine at working with individuals but I still do not understand 'politics'. I don't tolerate politics all that well either. To me, infighting and power-plays are lose/lose. I'm reminded of a quote I read in some management book - always hire first-rate people. First-rate people hire other first-rate people. Second-rate people hire third-rate people.

          I don't doubt that you find relationships to be more trouble than they are worth. I wonder if you were more facile with them if you would change your mind.

          I believe the good news/bad news about relationships are that we find folks who are closely matched to us. About 20-25 years ago I realized that if I "improved" myself I'd a) attract a "better" person, and b) be "happier".

          As for when/how/why I changed, I alluded to the "why" just above. As for the "when", I was always interested in having things be easier and work out better. I read. I really liked Casteneda back then, and also really liked "The History of Rasselas, Prince of Abysinnia" by Samuel Johnson. I took some classes/trainings in "how to make your life better" - stuff like "Silva Mind Control" and I remember not being real impressed with it. I looked at Scientology for a very short time and was quite turned off by it. I saw folks *saying* they knew how to teach me to be a happier person, but when it came down to it, I observed that they clearly did not have anything resembling a "workable" program.

          I started a business, and started reading books. Listening to NPR helped - they had authors I found I liked talk about their books, and then I started finding more of these. I was noticing more places where my life really wasn't working, and I realized that many times my attitudes and beliefs/expectations were the things that were seriously getting in my way. I asked my physician if he knew anybody good at unlocking deep dark secrets and he recommended a psychiatrist. I see this guy for a few years - we talked, no meds. I think he may have been a Freudian. Painfully slow stuff. I remember what Woody Allen's character said about Freudians in "Sleeper".

          Somewhere in here my body is starting to hurt (back trouble) and a friend recommends Alexander Technique. I do it, and am real impressed with how it is all about paying honest attention to what is going on and then simplifying/reducing movement to just the barest needed bits. After a couple of months of this I realize that while my "embellished" movements have been causing my physical strife, there is a corollary - I bet my "embellished" attitudes and assumptions are causing me 'psychological' and interpersonal strife, too. Time to pay better attention...

          But the real turning point for me was when my venture capitalist (the person who suggested the Silva stuff that neither of us really liked) called me one day and said "I found a seminar that is really great. It is so great that I signed you up for the next session and paid for it, and will pay your travel expenses to get there." I was a bit resistant to this, but hey, I also trusted the guy a lot.

          I showed up at the training the first day, sat in the back row with my arms and legs crossed. I watched everybody. I noticed how the #2 trainer at the seminar "turned on" his smile at the right moment when the seminar began and instantly distrusted him. And I listened to what was said by the trainers, and listened to the folks attending who got up and spoke/shared their experience. They said something like "the cornerstones of a balanced life are Accountability, Vulnerability, Integrity, and Spontaneity." I was not real sure what they meant, but I was pretty sure they were full of shit. Accountability meant "blame" to me. Vulnerability meant "weakness". Integrity meant something, but it was something people showed on the outside to others and didn't have much to do with anything "internal". I wasn't sure what they meant by Spontaneity, but I was plenty weird enough; I could be spontaneously weird and that was probably close to what they meant and I had no idea how that was gonna help me.

          That first day they gave thorough and detailed explanations of what they meant by Accountability. One section of this dealt with how we in the West can focus on the victim/persecutor/rescuer triangle, and how each "player" in that system needs the other 2 players. They talked about how that is a "dependency" model, and how debilitating that can can be. It was crystal clear to me that they had a *thorough* knowledge of this entire dysfunctional system, and it matched all my experience in that regard. They talked about how there is another choice - to live "at source", where *I* am the place I go for validation and perception, etc, and how the "change" from living from a place of dependency to living at source was as simple (and as hard) as making a conscious choice. They had demonstrated verifiable (to me) knowledge about the dysfunctional choice, and the presented enough "evidence" to me that being Accountable was a better way to go, so I figured I'd try it out (as best I could), at least while I was there. By this time I was in the front row.

          On each of the following days they covered a different "cornerstone". Again, each day they supplied a definition, demonstrated most thoroughly what happens in a variety of facets of "dysfunctional" choices, and presented how living in alignment with the day's 'cornerstone' would avoid the problems that cropped up otherwise.

          When the seminar ended on Sunday afternoon, I went straight to the front desk and signed up for their 2nd level seminar in 10 days' time, flew back halfway across the country and told my staff "the business will pay for anybody who wants to attend". In all, about half of my employees attended, and each of the folks who did was thoroughly grateful for the experience.

          Before I attended the seminar I was casually dating a number of women in different cities. I was also collecting a variety of 'things' (toys, basically) because, well, more is better, right? As a result of the seminar I decided to get rid of a lot of the crap I owned that was basically sucking my attention and not offering me much else in return and I decided to settle down and focus on a relationship with 1 person. I spent the next several years taking a few more of their seminars (I still value these highly and volunteer to help out with them whenever I can), and continuing to read/learn.

          Oh, in that first seminar I met a guy. He seemed interesting and knowledgeable, and we got along pretty well. He was a psychotherapist, and I really didn't know what that was. We kept in touch. After several years he said "Hey, I'm doing a training in the style of psychotherapy I teach and I think you might like it". I still had no idea what any of that was, but since the training was one weekend a month for 2 years I said my schedule would not really allow me to commit to that. A couple of years later we were chatting again and he said "I'm doing a new training - one month a year for 3 years" and I said I could handle that. I still had no idea what it would be about (and he knew that). I show up, start to get the idea that psychotherapy is talk therapy. And after several days I realize I'm in a training that will teach me to be a psychotherapist, and the stuff I'm learning is *way* faster and better than what I went thru with the psychiatrist. And the good news is that we're learning this stuff by "practicing" on each other, so I'm starting to "clear up" even more of my baggage.

          There's probably tons more, but I think I'm out of steam for now. I hope this wasn't too much of a babble.

          And I hope I have done an adequate job writing this, as I don't have the energy to re-read it to look for mistakes.

          H
          • I've been re-reading your post, trying to figure out the best way to approach it.

            In turn, I consistently end up starting a bunch of paragraphs that when put together lead to only one solid conclusion:

            Good Lord I'm a mess.
            • That's great news! Think how easy it will be to make positive progress from there!

              And I still see *many* ways where I think I am a mess.

              As far as I'm concerned, cleaning up my mess is a never-ending challenge; I just keep chipping away at it. Or at least I try some different things and see what happens.

              Here's more great news. I didn't really make significant progress with my "cleanup" until I was 30 or 31. You are still younger than that.

              Even more great news - you are a woman, and therefore it is highly likely that you have years' more maturity than a similarly aged guy.

              A few years ago I was chatting with a woman who was about 8 years younger than I was. We were trying to decide if we should go out. She said "But you're 8 years older than I am." I replied "That's great, because since women are more mature than men, it means that even though I am physically older than you I'm probably almost as mentally/emotionally mature as you are now!" She laughed, and we went out once (and then her life got Interesting and she didn't have time for dating).

              And I invite you to contemplate the difference between:

              Good Lord I'm a mess.

              and

              Good Lord I'm currently a mess.

              H

              • Oy, interesting topic.

                Well I'm a female INTP teen here, and let me first expound by saying: forget INTP females, I have enough trouble finding one INTP as it is.

                I've only ever met one other INTP, and it was a guy during a computer science lab. It was definitely an instant connection I've never observed before with other acquaintances. Platonic, of course. I'm not interested in dating yet. I find relationships and people in general to be distracting and somewhat of a liability.

                It's tough being an INTP woman for sure, and probably tougher than it is being an INTP female youth. I find that I'm bombarded every single day with the media and MTV and all these people telling me who I should be, and how I should look. It's a little irritating, although I take it in good humour. I'm studying Chemistry and Computer Science in school right now, and I get an earful about that from parents enough as it is.

                Barring that however, I find that as a youth it's a lot easier to get away with than if I was an older INTP lady. I'm in school, and I can still get away with the "experimental, tomboy girl" sort of look. I can wear hoodies and skateboard and wear stuff from the guys department and still marginally get away with it. That being said in addition to clothing therefore, I'm also able to get away with some of the INTP qualities, namely: objectivity, emotional distance, and uptight rationality. I expect that as I get older I am going to have to work harder and harder to fight for my INTPness.

                I'm very much the archetypal INTP as it is. I'm sure you've all read the German professor Paul James and his dissertation on the INTP profile. I've been on some other forums and for some it doesn't seem to completely encapsulate them. Well I tested very, very high on all 4 letters for my MBTI, and therefore James' profile fit me to a T...down to my favorite composer.

                And as for romantic relationships...well I'm not interested yet, and I'm hesitant to say for sure that I will be in a future. I'm very, very content being single, and simply could not imagine sharing my life with somebody. That seems so burdensome and irrelevant and distracting and intrusive.

                That being said...it's harder enough being a female, harder yet to be INTP. But I wouldn't give the second one up for the world.
    • Getting here a bit late (just found this site today - September 14, 2012) but felt compelled to respond anyhow. I thought I was the only INTP female in the country! (OK, that is ALMOST literally... heehee.) What a relief to find others out there, too. This particular post seems to describe me to a T. I would really like to find a place where INTPs can meet other INTPs. I'm in the Eastern US. Is there such a thing as an INTP convention?
  • I absolutely love being an INTP woman. It's awesome!!! I feel like I can work my intellectual side and then switch to my emotional side. Although my mind is sooooo much more over pronounced than my emotional side.

    Yes, it is difficult to navigate this world as a INTP female because we are generally uninterested in all the things society says we should be into. Who cares about the new fall fashions, the next new diet craze, bla, bla.... I only appreciate the artistic expression in most of it all anyways, but not to become a copy-cat but an innovator.

    With time, I have come to realize that I have a really great perspective on things. At 30 +, I've learned that despite whatever others may think, I really don't give a ----. I'm self-assured and unconcerned about my aloofness. I'm rare and special.
    • Unsu...
       
      didn't Jung say that no personality is any more special than the other? They all are supposedly codependent on each other to make society function. Well I dunno what I'm doing here, I'm probably an INTJ but I always test only like 1 percent more J than P, so I'm like INTX, so I just joined both groups.
  • I'm resurrecting this thread. First, because, when I searched 'INTP Women' in google - its the first hit and I couldn't help myself.

    I don't think 'behavioural problems' is how I would phrase the difficulties INTP women deal with daily, more like 'behavioural misperceptions'. I don't know how many times I've been told that I'm smart, and as a compliment. But, in the same breath, I'll hear low self-esteem. Honestly. to this day, I'm still trying to figure out why I'm perceived as having a low self-esteem. At best, I thought I was being a team player, and in most cases it's because I could care less about the minor daily tribulations that seem to afflict those supposedly higher self-esteem folks. (Ops, my arrogance is slipping through - PULEASSEEEE!)

    Many times, in my adventures of simply experiencing things, the outcome of these experiences don't offend my ego enough, I quess for the next person. I'm there to experience it - while others I find are there to prove something. My close friends describe me as being extraordinarly liberal and forgiving of others, but very conservative in how I present to the world; and of course, very, very distrustful, almost to the point of paranoia, of anything establishment. I hate being caged, tracked and my privacy, whether for good (but always used for evil :) invaded. I can see the trend beginning prior to others taking notice of it even starting and what the true purpose of it is. (Shhh... they are trying to control us - why should I care, I'm also still trying to figure out. But, to me, my innate reaction is biological - aka, I can't help the anger and fear it instills in me.)

    But, mostly I joined to reply to this post to say, I'm 100% convinced that INTP women were burned at the stake, because we were identified rightly or wrongly :) so as witches throughout history. Maybe that's why the low percentage rate of INTPs - LOL. WE ARE SO MISUNDERSTOOD.

    I spend 65% of my day and 85% of my energy undoing the perceptions that SJ impose on us. Many times, for survival - faking it.
    • Oh yes, INTP's in general i suspect get both the arrogant and low self esteem labels... and if you ever put together a dozen people who used each of those labels in a room with a dozen who used the other it'd be fascinating to watch.
  • Also, have to mention - if this was a true INTP forum. The post would appear from the most current to the past. Again, couldn't help myself with the innocent critique. It only makes sense - doesn't it. Why sift thru all the old post first to get to the current one.
  • arrogant and low self esteem labels
    Does this count as socializing for an intp? Can't be .............. I don't socialise.

    I realise this is an old thread but it was interesting to read that Jen called INTP a masculine personality type. I had never thought of it in that light, it's a good way of describing it. I was the quintessential tomboy as a child. Pink no, dolls no, giggling - never. My expressionless mono-brow stare was pretty much perfected before I started school though. For some odd reason girls, all the way through school, seemed to dislike me intensely. I must admit the feeling was mutual. I used to wonder what I was doing wrong and when I was younger I even tried to fake my way into the girly world. Disaster. Feminine wiles can neither be learned of faked, thank goodness.
    Growing up has been very kind to this INTP chick. I don't care what people think. I get on better with blokes than with women which is only a little problem considering that I'm gay!
    Personally I've found gay women to be as scatty and shallow as straight women. Women, no matter what their sexual orientation, don't like INTP women. We must be scary :)
    Don't you realise that if you are quiet, don't wear makeup or strive to be a constant follower of fashion then you MUST have low self esteem?
    Bollocks, I have wonderful self esteem ( or is that a smidgen of arrogance!).
    Arrogance by the way is not exclusive to us INTP's. My INTJ partner with her 142 IQ has turned arrogance into an art form. Bless her.

    Cheers Fiona
    • Oh, i don't actually think most INTP's are arrogant. I think we just tend to have _reasons_ to believe or behave as we do, and don't see anything worthwhile in not bending to others whims if they are counter to, but do not disprove those reasons.
      • thanks mike, I agree

        one thing to remember is that when someone says someone else has low self esteem,
        then its coming from their perceptions of what it means

        about twenty years ago ,,,I was working on a horse ranch in arizona,,,and then found

        a ranch managers job where i would be the one calling the shots,,,I have a more progressive way of dealing with horses,,,and tend to view a lot of training styles as antiquanted,,,mediocre at best,,,and also traditional out of laziness of thinking for as an individual,,,the woman who ran the place told me i should go back to college,,,and when i said why, she said i wasn't tough enough,,,and when i asked her to explain she said I wasn't tough enough on the horses,,,and I told her i didn't feel a need to be tough on the horses to which she replied thats what it took,,,and I told her i was glad her thinking wasn't part of what i wanted to bring to the 21st century,,,

        to me its not power over an animal or a person,,,its power with ,,,

        anyway i'm glad for the independance of thought here and don't
        let the fuck wads get you down


        best regards to all
        • It took most of my first two decades to realize what a rare bird I/We are, and several more years to realize that I worked best with people who were rational, instinctive and emotional in that order... and how dismayingly few people fit that bill.
  • Hello all,

    I just found out I'm INTP bc all this time, I thought I was ENFP.

    I read Jen's initial post, some of H-man and Dada's posts and some of the other ones. Dada's is the one that made me realize maybe that personality test was true! i AM an INTP but I used to get ENFP or INFP... this is because I, like H-man perhaps, was trying so hard to 'improve' myself and be more social and more... ordinary. Because ordinary people are great! they are the majority. they all seem to get each other. Then there is snooty me who is always finding flaws. i see it as fairness but others think its nit picky... if I go to a party and someone asks how it went, I say the good and the bad, as though I'm representing the party in a court! It's pretty thorough.

    So I'm wondering, has anyone ever run away from their INTPness?

    I have always been a little smarter than the average person (maybe not smarter but more perceptive due to my personality) and used to do really well in school till i realized it was too damn easy so I did nothing and still got alright grades and finished grad school. but if I hadnt learned to hone in my funny side and my people skills, I would have lost some major opportunities due to slacking bc I dont really finish things. And like Dada, I usually wait until the consequences are threatening enough for me to change paths... so for example, I'm MESSY or misplace things and know I've misplaced them but not lost them. but I wont look for the thing I lost until I absolutely need it. I need to see necessity and reason for my actions...

    I'm taking a programming class now, for fun, so yes, I must be a true type.. and totally neglected it and am 2 weeks behind which in online class terms is longer. Sometimes I cant tell if i'm displaying some sort of PTSD symptom (grew up in political turmoil), am depressed, negative, or just plain ol ME! I seem alright on the outside and wear nice clothes and have my own style but I spend about 10 seconds to get ready in the morning or even when I go out. I look alright though... some say good. So it's lucky but I see some coworkers(fake female work 'friends' who are more like hyper feminized stereotypes of women), on the prowl for men, saying their favorite color is pink (and then admitting they said it to be "feminine" .. man, what a shame right?) and straightening their hair for an hour etc in the AM... I just dont get it!! AM I sloppy or just introverted and the rest of the acronym??? where do these people get this energy for so much superficial 'achievement'? I hate small talk and sometimes avoid people but have a lot of acquaintances and sometimes fool a lot of people into thinking Im this sociable, easy going, people loving person. BUT I've realized... I'm me and the real me is the nerdy person who likes to be alone a lot, do stuff on her own, read, discover things, etc. And I like guys that are the same.

    Also.. does anyone have IMPULSIVENESS issues? Because since I'm so at odds within me, I let one part rule and then when the other side cant take it, I just do a 360 and bam, it's ALL over! and sometimes I burn bridges too...Usually I hurt the guys I date bc I want to be one way about somethign and pretend to be cool with it bc I feel otehrwise I'm too picky, and then all of a sudden I get really annoyed and bam, he's dumped!! So this is like Hman saying confrontation used to bug him. Me too... any static and i want to give up and usually do :(

    So to get to my point here, if anyone is still reading, I'm delighted that there is a forum for this. Its a life saver because I was starting to wonder why I had to work so hard to be social and 'care' about stupid things other people die for...

    I have a big need for individuality, like quieter, contemplative guys, usually do get along with men more than women but have solid female friendships (though sorry to stereotype, they are a bit gossipy and ask too many questions sometimes and have a lot of maintenance needs). I'm ALWAYS at odds within myself. It's difficult...I'm VERY logical but VERY emotional too. So I will know logically that a choice is bad, but contrary to other postings here, I will go with my heart, but with a caveat to myself that I will reverse whatever I did at X time and that becomes even harder for me emotionally and i feel bad. So for example: I started dating someone purely out of attraction. and i think the attraction was because he's INTP too but I didnt even realize it! I was faking my ENFPness when we started dating. But we have some circumstantial blocks that made dating a bad idea for me but of course, I fell madly for the guy, all the while having my mental police standing there telling me to stop it and now we finalyl broke up but I'm totally still aware of my both sides.

    how do you reconcile the 2 sides???

    So if anyone wants to reply to my questions, I'd love ot know what you think! Thank you.
    • As i said upthread, it took me a while to realize i was happiest when i was being "me" and not "the me people wanted". I had someone tell me after meeting me in person that i was much less aggressive in real life. I responded with "this is my professional persona".

      But yeah, you sound very like me.

      I've found people like me um, for longer... if i live inside my own head most of the time.
      • "I've found people like me um, for longer... if i live inside my own head most of the time."


        That is one of the main reasons I don't drink....I don't need my tongue loosened and people to hear my real thoughts...

    • "So I'm wondering, has anyone ever run away from their INTPness? "

      You can run, but you can't hide! :-)

      I wound up being an elementary school teacher, which put me in a workplace of ESFJs, I think! At first it was ok because it was very interesting and working in special ed requires lots of problem solving. And when that started getting boring, I got more graduate degrees to teach gifted and do technology integration... but within a few years of each change, I''d once again get bored and stressed and exhausted from dealing with that institutionalized school climate. It took too much energy dealing with mandatory staff and committee meetings, inservices which stretched an hour's worth of information into a 7 hour day, etc. I was gobbling antidepressants and sleeping pills the last 3 years, thanks to a sympathetic doctor who helped me hang in there long enough to get an early retirement pension. lol. Now I live in an RV park buried inside hundreds of miles of national forest, happy as a clam, reading, playing chess, learning Japanese and astronomy, hiking with my dog, occasional meals with friends here ... I only leave to travel or visit family and friends. Ah, the solitude! no more drugs!

      One thing that helped me find my own lifestyle was traveling... spending time in places with much lower standards of living, where people seemed much happier and less stressed, helped me get an idea of a way I could live in a way that suits me...
      Gotta thank the job for that -- after obtaining hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants for tech purchases, I turned my grant writing talents to getting myself some juicy travel grants ;-)

      Alas, there is still not enough time in a day. But now I have plenty of days.
      • I just typed in INTP women into google and this was the site that came up.
        I guess I was interested because I was also catergorized as an INTP woman.
        I'm 19 years old, i found out I was an INTP when I was 14 when i did a personality test in one of my classes my freshman year, and I've recently retaken the test to see if the results would come out the same. Obviously they did.
        Honestly, I'm really not that book smart at all. I didn't get good grades in high school. I love being at parties and being around people. My socializing and alone time are equally balanced. Also, I do take time to get ready and look good, and i don't find it to be fake at all. Outer appearance is the first thing a person will see about you. So why not amaze them with outer and then later with inner beauty and logic. Is that so wrong and "fake"? To take time to do your hair and exercise and feel good about the way you look?
        I really don't feel secluded or better or smarter than the people around me, or think that people "just don't get me" except for the fact that I get jokes a little quicker, and I don't use emotions to make decisions... I really don't use my emotions at all. I seem to use more logic than some people, instead of feelings, I loose interest in things very quickly, and i can come up with fair, realistic, and obvious conclusions that leave alot of people saying... "OOH, yeah that's what we should do!"
        The replies I have read were rubbing me the wrong way when reading through it. It seems like alot of the people who posted replies on this think that they are somehow better than everyone around them just because of the fact they are an INTP. It's seems like some people are throwing mini pity parties for themselves... saying that noone understands, and how you've been treated so differently because your a INTP woman. Honestly, I've had no problem being an INTP woman. I enjoy it. It sets me apart from other girls my age, and I have a sense of maturity about me that others see and appreciate. And those who don't like me, I don't really give a fuck about, because why would I want to worry about or talk to someone who doesn't like me? I'm not aggressive, only a little to people who think they are better than others... which is what I found to be a reoccuring theme in many posts here. Sure you may think differently from other people, but all people think differently. It's not like you're a rare flower in a field full of weeds. And the fact that you all seem to agree to thinking and acting the same, makes it seem like you aren't as unique as you thought you were, because five or how ever many other people on this thing just agreed to having the same behaviors and thought patterns as yourself. Sure, it's hard to be misunderstood or whatever you want to call it, but as long as you have people around you that do understand, then what are you bitchin about? It just seems like you should be more worried about other things, instead of sitting here talking about yourselves and how smart and "different" you are. that type of thinking is what is probably the thing that is ostrasizing you from people and pushing them away, and probably the reason why you don't like to socialize, and blame it on the fact that "people just don't get me!" You may not think you're being arrogant, but to me it seems that way. Sure, you're way of doing things may seem better or more logical, but like I said, everyone thinks differently and does things differently. That doesn't mean they are less intelligent as you. And honestly, I think any kind of personality test is bullshit. How can a series of questions tell you how you are? You as a individual should already know who you are, and lumping yourself into some four lettered catergory is only making you less of an individual. Sure this test is somewhat accurate, but believing that a test explains everything that you are is sad.
        • Actually, yes I am smarter than most people, and not 51%, much, much further up. Also INTP _is_ about a 1% occurrence in homo-sape. In a world with roughly 6.5 Billion people, that means there are about 65 million INTP's spread out across 200+ nations. And yes, being logically driven when you chose to use it _is_ a more viable way of making long term decision. If one employees their logic, reason and intelligence instead of being a sheeple like most of the rest of the human race to make their life better, and not hurt others yes, yes they are a better person.

          Last, a personality test gives you the slice of psycho-emotional topography upon which you dwell, individual locations do vary.
          • Recently, a co-worker was quizzing me on the way I interact with the rest of the world. It came down to, "Yeah, people are dumb, but I try and not hold it against them. Everyone is free to choose their own path." And he asked, "So, does that make you better than them?" And I surprised myself by responding, "Yes."

            I think INTPs have a lot of empathy for the f*cked up world around them, from the few that I've known. We see it, acknowledge and then work around it the best that we can. That is probably what I appreciate most about my personality traits.
    • A personality type is more than just 4 letters (directions). Any good MBTI test will give you the strength of the projections along each direction. You are neither INTP nor ENFP, you are xNyP, where x & y are very close to 0, hence you can "switch" sides. You can view yourself as being "balanced" in I-E and T-F. It is the T-F balance that causes the most confusion, since paired with N forms an NF subgrop or "idealists" vs NT subgroup "rationalists".
  • Well, I am very late in joining the discussion but the things people here wrote really made me think about where I stand INTP-wise.

    Well, as an INTP woman I don't think, at least I'm not aware of, people thinking I'm aggressive, rude or patronizing. If anything, I think they find me too gentle, and, as someone here said, insecure. Actually, those who find me insecure are usually authority figures- professors, general managers, etc. I think that's because I'm not interested in talking to them unless it's for a purpose, so when they address me and I have nothing to say, I mumble and say very little. I do have a problem speaking up in large crowds or to people with authority, but usually only when I'm not sure of what I'm going to say. Actually, that's why some people find me so quiet- I don't say anything unless I actually… HAVE something to say. And I hate it when people do.

    What makes me seriously doubt my INTPiness is- I don't usually have personal problems with my employers (I mean my direct employers, not the hotshot managers). Actually, after a short adaptation period (I'm definitely shy at first), they become rather fond of me. I think it's because I work hard, and am always willing to walk the extra mile. It is when I find they are starting to like me that I start enjoying my job, and really thrive. That's not very INTP, is it? The need for approval…

    Another thing is-one honest complement can make my day. But only when I know the person that gives me the complement actually "knows what he's talking about", i.e, has reviewed my work in some way and made a conscious positive stand regarding it. If I know they didn't, or if I know they complement all their employees the same way, or suspect they complement me because they like me personally, I think nothing of the complement and am actually upset to receive praise I think I don't deserve.

    I think my bosses actually like me being a hard working and intelligent person, who has a critical opinion, or any opinion for that matter, regarding work business. So if that's how you are as an INTP woman- know there are employers you will get along perfectly with:) don't be despondent.

    As far as the social personality thing goes, I've heard a lot of people here mention people don't like them because they don't "do" the social thing.

    To this I say- it depends. I am very independent, and, as one friend said to me once, give the impression I don't need anybody. Some people do find this intimidating. But they are actually just insecure people, who need to be needed. I have no interest in such people. With those who do have confidence (real confidence, not look-at-me-I-have-confidence) I connect pretty quickly. Actually, if you ask these people they'll laugh at the thought of me being shy or introverted, while if you ask the former type, they'll say that's exactly the way I am.

    I don't really think I've ever began an acquaintance with somebody I didn't like; and when I like somebody, I can be real nice:). I literally don't bother with those I don’t like, or I feel have to be the center of attention or who are wrapped up in how they look to the outside world. I never could understand that. "I do what I do ", like somebody here said- if you like it, join in; if not, DO NOT get in the way.

    And I totally empathize with the person who said if she was a man she would be very successful with girls- because in this department I am exactly as she and other people described. I just don't really mind being alone and I think people want their partner to need them in a way. It takes a very confident person to date someone you know will do just fine without you. Some cheesy movie had a line in it which I will never forget- "I can live without you- I just don't want to". That's the kind of relationship I want to be in.

    Would love it if you comment and let me know if you feel the same… I identified with A LOT of things said here… (And sorry for any grammatical mistakes- I'm not used to writing, let alone in English).

    • wow, I'm kinda late for this post, but anyway,

      I seem to manifest the worst bits of INTP. I am actually quite insecure and terrified of making mistakes, but I attribute a lot of that to growing up being "the fat kid" in the class, who was always getting picked on.

      In theory, I am very independent. I feel like I need approval from others a lot, but, at the same time, whenever they say something I don't agree with, I just ignore them, and don't really take the advice I ask for.
      I also have issues with being physical, practical, doing routine work and all that. And I get so hyper-emotional at times that it's impossible for me to "keep it together". I've actually been diagnosed "unofficially" with bipolar disorder.

      I am really not that brainy in a classical sense. I'm just a "thinker" and mentally hyperactive. I am contemplating the idea of possibly studying biology or chemistry in the future.

      Another major issue I have is with relationships. I'm always the odd man out, no matter where I go. I get along pretty well with people, on a shallow level, but I never feel close to anyone, and that makes me feel alone and unappreciated.

      any genius INTPs in here, who may guide me?
    • Rama, I agree with a lot of your posts. I am often considered rather aggressive or scary, mostly in conversation because I become passionate with argument. When I want to firmly stand with my argument, it tends to come off as aggressive, which always surprises me (because I fail to notice!). I guess I am not good at modulating my tone of voice because Extraverted Feeling is the inferior (4th) function of the INTP type. The inferior function is like the Id. I think what Sherry wrote (logic vs. emotion) has to do with this as well, and I, too, experience rocky emotions often.

      Growing up, I often wished I were F instead of T, seeing other kids receive praise for expressing sensitivity which does not come out of me easily.
      I wished to be E instead of I, because being immature and a loner sucked.
      I drive SJs crazy because I tend to lose attention, misplace things, lose things or break things.

      After learning MBTI, my personality made a lot of sense to me, and I am much more comfortable with who I am. My job is a good fit for an INTP, and NTP has served me really well in my career. MBTI may lack empirical data to back it up, but it is a model that seems to work with many people. BTW, I read an article on MBTI written in Japan in the 70s. It said women cannot be INTPs, so if you are a female and tested as one, well retake, because you must be wrong! LOL!

      Now I encourage F to take more control. I trust "gut feeling" when there is no time for logic.
      I work on S so that I can be more attentive to things and people. It makes poor sense to lose things or friends if it is preventable.
      I work on J so that I can follow through better and deliver my work faster (P resists).
      I work on E in the art of small talks to make myself and others comfortable. I still shy away from parties with a lot of strangers, especially when I am depressed.
      All of these must come with conscious efforts and energy expenditure, but I think they are worth it.

      I used to think I would never marry. I thought looking after a man was a chore when I could hardly take care of myself, but life surprised me!
      • I'm a 30-something INTP woman, I burn bridges,speak my mind, have authority issues like crazy, sound excessively critical but am actually very tolerant,am messy, keep not-finishing things and seem to intimidate women (that's what my boss tells me) and would be more than happy with just my husband and 2 cats.

        I can pass as a chatty friendly type...was so socialised by parents and teachers who were concerned I was depressed or defective. But am tired of pretending now (tried desperately to be extroverted feeler for years and years,hated being an INTP!)and am happily burning bridges just cause i couldn'tbe bothered with idiots anymore. Very nice to find other INTP women out there, loved Dada's post!

        Was lucky to find a guy 10 years ago who adores me and I him...he was amused by my "weirdness"- he'd gone out with models and fluffy types for years, thought I was cool and different. He's an ENFJ...so does all the housework and bridge re-building when needed, and when exhaused by his office full of emotional women loves coming home to me and my weirdness!
        • Your post and Dada's post sounds like the story of my life. I recently found out I am INTP and suddenly so many things about myself became clearer. I used to wonder if something was wrong with me for having odd interests compared to other women, and why I couldn't relate to them most of the time. I have always gotten along better with guys in general and like Aren, I am also married to an ENFJ that gets me in general. I have burned many bridges in my life, even with close family members due to the fact that I can't deal with constant conflict too well. I struggle to get projects done. In the beginning I'm so motivated and excited, but then once that initial passion wears off, I start dreading following through. Many people would be shocked to know that I'm INTP because I try my best to fit into this extrovert dominant world, but once I get home and I'm alone I feel so relieved and content. Being social often drains me and I find myself being too critical and pessimistic a little too often concerning others and life. Sometimes I can have some pretty jaded or extreme views in general. I have an extremely difficult time opening up to others about what's in my head because most of the time I fear being misunderstood and judged. I try my best to work things out on my own. There's so much more I could write, but the majority of you have already posted exactly how I feel, and I don't particularly care for redundancy.
  • According to Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gend...ty_tests), 60-75% of women prefer Feeling (which means 25-40% of women prefer Thinking). Other sources also cite similar numbers, and T/P is the only dichotomy that shows any gender difference. So for every INTP male, there should be 0.33~0.67 INTP female. INTP women should not be THAT rare within the entire INTP population.
    • I wonder if it's true that "rational" women(INTP, ENTP, INTJ, ENTJ) are always less "catty" and less jealous/bitchy than others.

      I am an INTP, and my sister is an INTJ, and we never had that typical competitive relationship. True, there is a 13 year age gap between us, but even so...I've heard of other similar sister relationships that are very bitchy and catty.

      I have always been very proud of my sister-cause she was the overachiever in the family-and still is, whereas I'm kinda like the black sheep. But the thing is I just understand her very well, and she's very mature and understanding and supportive of me, as well.
      And, well, thank God, we don't have similar tastes in men. lol

      But, anyway, I've always felt kinda shocked when I was around my friends, or just an all-girls entourage, and praised my sister and her achievements, that they would ask me if I wasn't envious/jealous of her. It just never crossed my mind.

      Furthermore, I'm having more and more incidents like that with girls in general, and I find I am incredibly naive when it comes to "women"-LOL. Like I'm more of a man within an all-female entourage.
      Like I remember when I was 15, and lost a lot of weight-almost 40 pounds, and, well, got sort of pretty for the first time in my life, my girlfriends' attitude towards me changed visibly, and several years later, one of them actually said something to me that made it sound like she felt threatened by me. Like I was totally shocked.
      Another shock came from my own mother, who asked me if I was gay when I was 18, because I wasn't interested in men. she, of all people. An incredibly down-to-earth, no bullshit, no frivolities type of woman.

      I just don't find the need to assert myself through my "seductiveness", and it really bothers me when I meet these types of women who count their lovers and boyfriends like Indians counted scalps, because I just feel it gives women a bad name, in general.
      And correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always felt like women who go for the strongest, tallest, handsomest man automatically are just plain ruled by their genitals, and I, personally, find that incredibly embarrassing.

      I think a lot of it is education, really. I don't know about other parts of the world, but here, in Eastern Europe, you're still pretty much regarded as a freak if you are not chasing men, or always wanting to have a boyfriend, or always wanting to look better and blah blah.
      Though I think it's pretty much a general phenomenon that despite all this "emancipation", a woman's worth is still weighed in looks and seductiveness rather than brains and expertise. which, again, comes as unacceptable by little, idealistic, me.

      I guess I'm programmed to rebel against the natural flow of things. If I feel people expect me to turn left, I'll turn right; just to show them that I can control myself and be who I am.

      Is this an INTP thing, or just a my thing?

      • Newb here. It is interesting here to see different expressions of the INTP type. I am an INTP female who leans toward the feeling side, which could make me more social and emotional than the "prototype." I am very emotional, which can be fun sometimes when I am giddy and goofy or thinking passionately of an imaginary lover. But my feelings can also be frightening, dark and stormy. I tend to lash out when angered. I am still a T type though, as I will analyze, analyze my feelings just like everything else. I have come to learn that, despite their deceptive intensity, feelings do not equal reality.

        Mant, you said above that you have friends but do not connect deeply with anyone. I believe that is part of the INTP package. Even those of us who actually want to interact with people have some difficulties doing so. If you meet other INTP or similar personality types, you should find it easier to relate with them. It's just that they are rare to find.

        Regarding your comments on "seductiveness," actually I feel a bit freakish because I think about sex more than other women seem to. I love men and I love the idea of playing mating games (for fun, not to be hurtful or manipulative). INTPs create world inside their heads, and mine includes plenty of that. The reality is a bit different though. From what I am reading on this thread, INTP women tend to be tomboyish and are unlikely to "stoop" to using their bodies and feminine wiles to attract a man. But let's face it, INTP women do not use femine wiles, not only because that behavior is only for the lower castes (/irony), but because we don't have femine wiles! Am I right? We are not naturally equipped to compete with girly girls on their field, nor would we want to. We rely on our intellect and personality to attract a mate.

        I think it is characteristic of INTP types to have a rebellious streak.
        • Nitou, I am very emotional and think about sex often too :). I had more hang-ups about looking and behaving like a female stereotype when I was younger (late teens), thinking I was giving in to expectations of the male-dominated society. Then I decided that learning to cook or dressing up some would let me have more fun, even if it means to give in a little. Although I prefer comfortable outfits over sexy outfits, I like to dress "date" to please my mate if occasion calls for it (not very often). I can see that he is happy, and his pleasure is my pleasure, so I get a kick seeing him pleased. He likes me to be me, but he is a guy after all :) I don't mean to generalize, but I think that we INTPs like to please those lucky few who get to know us intimately and win our trust. And INTP women can choose to get in touch with their feminine side if and when they want to.

          I don't think trying to be seductive won't work for us for very long, unless we are accidentally sending a wrong signal. If being feminine means being seductive, many of us just don't do it naturally. How hard we may try, we are going to overlook something somewhere :). We may be unattractive or even threatening to some men, but they won't do us any good beyond the morning after. We are better off with sincere nerds who like us for who we are. And an INTP woman will make a terrible housewife and stay-at-home mom, unless her partner is willing to split domestic duties with her and not to be critical about her mishaps.

          Getting along with other women got easier as I (and probably they too) got older.
          • yes, the sex thing..I read that it's an INTP thing to go for it..I gotta find that article to link it for you, caause I can't remember the phrasing, exactly. I think about sex quite often myself, and I am generally sensual, but I don't find it easy to give up control of myself. Plain and simple:I'm still a virgin.
            Plus, I also have major emotional issues linked to my father which left me with a deep-seated hate towards men that just blows out of my subconscious, every now and then.

            I don't know if you ever saw a film called "the mirror has two faces" with barbara streisand and jeff bridges. Jeff Bridges' character in the film is a "hardcore" INTP. An overly-brainy, absent-minded, hard to get, yet quite handsome, math college professor who, despite seeing everything in patterns and being crazy about logical thinking, totally loses his head over beautiful women.
            There is an epic scene at the beginning of the film in which he is supposed to give a speech about his book-which he finally managed to finish after 14 years, because his last girlfriend broke up with him, a year back, and he was able to focus- and he just starts his speech, when this ex girlfriend walks in the room, and he just starts losing it, mumbling, speaking nonsense and starting to sweat and then finally says "thank you all for..coming." -ahaha, and runs to a nearby office.
            I remember the first time I saw the film, I thought..OMG. THAT's me. hahaha.

            I am so out of touch with my body most of the times, that when I see a handsome guy(handsome in my terms, not some stereotype), I just totally lose my head-I downright hyper-ventilate, and the intensity of my emotions really scares me. LOL. I can't believe how dorky I sound..
            • here's some stuff I found about "rational sex" LOL:

              "NTs often have a curious amorality related to the generally accepted standards of sexual behaviors. The
              rules of society have little pressure for NTs, but their own idiosyncratic standards of conduct do. These
              usually have been carefully considered, and are followed with or without society’s approval. The sexual
              ethics of an NT are generally his own; they may or may not conform to the general morals of sexual
              behavior current in any given time.

              Establishing a sexual or social relationship with an NT, especially introverted NTs usually requires more
              investment of time and energy than with other types. This is especially in contrast with SPs, who are
              more ready to establish relationships. Often, types who are not NTs are unwilling to invest the time and
              energy required to relate to an NT. Even the extraverted NTs, although apparently easy to get to know,
              are actually fairly difficult to understand, for the personality structure of an NT is characteristically
              complex and, at times, even convoluted. Friends and mates of NTs repeatedly express surprise at a facet
              of character they fine in the NT, one that had not been apparent previously.

              Female NTs, in particular, are apt to have their sexuality overlaid with intellectualism. Their preference
              for the logical can obscure expressions of their feelings, which may or may not be well developed. If not,
              the NT female may have difficulty with orgasmic responses unless her partner takes the time, makes the
              effort, and understands the necessity of making a sexual approach through mutual exploration of
              intellectual concepts. It is unlikely that an NT female will be sexually stimulated by a partner who is not
              her intellectual equal. Male NTs have a somewhat different expectation concerning intellectual equality.
              The preference here is for equality at most and some – but not too much – inferiority at best. Obviously,
              this places the intellectually gifted female in a position of limited appropriate NT choices.
              In any event, both female and male NTs can bring to a sexual relationship a willingness to explore
              possibilities of erotic arousal. If they have so marked it out as one of their areas of competency, NTs can
              be quite expert in sexual technology. They are very apt to possess skill in both the physical and
              psychological logistics involved in sexual intercourse, and to understand well the necessity for this
              relationship to be based on a wide variety of common interests outside the bedroom. Unlike the NF, who
              might consider it unromantic to study carefully scientific treatises on sexuality (e.g., Masters and
              Johnson, 1966), NTs would be likely to do so, finding it relatively easy to translate these objective findings
              into creative sexual, sensual behavior."
            • MantisReligiosa, thank you for the link. Interesting, very interesting.

              I tend to find attraction in brainy men. Not just the IQ, but a mix of intelligence, experience and sensibility seems to be the attractor. It is the moment of "Ah, interesting. I never thought of it, but it makes sense! And I like your interpretation!" in conversation that tickles my heart as well as my brain. Men who don't do this to me can only be friends with me, however nice they are as human beings. It is also hard to imagine me going to bed with anyone whose value system goes counter to my own.

              It is interesting to read in the article that INTP men are less choosy than INTP women. This is exactly what Darwin hypothesized about males and females in general - female choosiness. Maybe INTP women are unconsciously looking for intelligent men to father their offspring, to ensure that they would have intelligent babies? Maybe INTP women unconsciously measure the fitness of offspring in intelligence? Paradoxically, I can also expect that sexual advances by INTP men would be rejected more often than those by INTP women, because men tend to be less choosy, and they are less likely than women to say no to get laid.
              • "Maybe INTP women are unconsciously looking for intelligent men to father their offspring, to ensure that they would have intelligent babies? Maybe INTP women unconsciously measure the fitness of offspring in intelligence?"

                yes, I would definitely say so. I've thought of that years ago, for the first time. I also think it's just in the nature of out species to leave the "choosing" bit to the females of the race, while men only have to make sure they are always up and ready "to go" lol.

                I also read another, more disturbing, article that concluded that, statistically, in the US(and since this is the most open-minded country, probably everywhere else) INTP women are the least appreciated, most negatively seen of the different personality subtypes, simply because they display characteristics which are not usually associated with "feminine behavior".

                lemme find that link.. typeandculture.org/Pages/C_...ger_K.pdf

                here's some points they make in the article:

                "Another kind of evidence comes from Portraits of Type (1991), by Avril Thorne and
                Harrison Gough. Their study analyzes 30 years of data collected about participants at
                the Institute of Personality Assessment and Research (IPAR) at the University of
                California at Berkeley. IPAR assessors (trained psychologists) conducted intensive
                individual interviews, observed group problem-solving tasks and social interactions,
                and assessed creativity and personal adjustment to arrive at their evaluations of
                individuals. They then used such instruments as the Adjective Check List (Gough &
                Heilbrun, 1983) and the California Q-Set (Block, 1986) to describe participants. The
                observers did not know individuals’ types when they recorded their observations.
                Thorne and Gough compiled the words and phrases observers used to
                describe/assess different types and then reported those most highly correlated with a
                particular type. According to Thorne and Gough, “a large number of correlates were
                significant for both male and female INTPs, making this type one of the most clearly
                depicted” (1991, p. 86).
                The words and phrases used most often to describe INTP women were entirely
                negative. Those used most often to describe male INTPs were mixed—some positive
                and some negative. INTP females were depicted more negatively than women in
                general and than women of any other type. Female INTP descriptions were also more
                negative than those for any male type.
                It is important to note that Thorne & Gough’s sample was a selective group—welleducated
                and creative. The samples included undergraduate students at the University
                of California at Berkeley, senior-year students at a liberal arts women’s college, students
                in the law school at Berkeley, mathematicians, architects, creative writers, business
                executives, and other professionals. Participants were generally chosen for their creative
                accomplishments or potential (1991, pp. 4-5). The INTP women were predominantly
                mathematicians, law students, and undergraduate students (p. 86).

                THORNE & GOUGHʼS CORRELATED DESCRIPTORS FOR FEMALE INTPS
                Phrases most often used to describe:
                • is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations
                • keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships
                • is subtly negativistic; tends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage
                • tends to be self-defensive
                • extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame
                Adjectives most often used to describe:
                • distrustful
                • sulky
                • evasive
                • indifferent
                9. INTP WOMEN ACROSS CULTURES 101
                • resentful
                • defensive
                • wary
                • unfriendly
                • tense
                Phrases least often used to describe:
                • emphasizes being with others; gregarious
                • has social poise and presence; appears socially at ease
                • has a clear-cut internally consistent personality
                • appears straight-forward, forthright, candid in dealing with others
                • is turned to for advice and reassurance
                Adjectives least often used to describe:
                • tolerant
                • appreciative
                • helpful
                • cooperative
                • honest
                • warm
                • pleasant
                • sincere
                • sympathetic
                • understanding (1991, p. 87)
                It may be that this particular group of INTP females was especially poorly
                developed in type terms, though the percentage of students and successful
                professionals was similar to the makeup of women in other type groups. Descriptors
                chosen may also (and we think they do) provide important information about American
                cultural values for women."

                "Our interpretation is that characteristic behaviors of INTPs when displayed by
                women in the U.S. are interpreted by others in negative ways because of cultural
                assumptions about how women should be and behave. Whether the descriptors for
                women in this study were significantly influenced by the cultural biases of the
                observers, or the behavior and adjustment of these women was influenced by their life
                experience with cultural/family values is impossible to judge from the evidence. Either
                may be true or, more likely, the negative picture of INTP women is the result of both
                these factors. Thus, our beginning hypotheses about INTP women are:
                • characteristic behaviors/attitudes of INTPs are viewed in a negative light
                when they are observed in women in the U.S.;
                • this cultural bias may impact the development of INTP women and their
                ability to express their type preferences in positive ways."
                • Thank you for another interesting link. I've spotted it before, but your post actually motivated me to read it.

                  I am from Japan, and I think that an ideal woman as a wife would be ISFJ in my country. She is demure, but she has lots of inner strength to complement and complete a man. Being SJ, she is attentive, keeps the house well and is almost motherly to her husband, which is not a bad thing to a traditional Japanese man. ESFP or ENFP would be the "popular girl" who is fun to go out and play with, for either gender.

                  I don't think INTP women would fit into any culture well, even in a matriarchal one. We would be black sheeps anywhere, which is too bad, because we have potential to become great lovers according to the previous article ("rational sex"?). LOL.

                  I wonder if "distrustful" "defensive" "distant" "weary" "unfriendly" and "resentful" demeanor is actually reinforced through upbringing of an INTP woman. Being socially more awkward than F types, she may keep receiving negative reinforcements during her childhood and adolescence for how she naturally behaves. Hmmmm.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I have no idea what personality type would be most wanted in my country, nor does it interest me, really. lol.
                    "Dogs bark, but the caravan goes on."-this usually means life goes on, but it can also work in describing someone who sticks to their path, and ignores the "barking dogs".

                    Oh, and the article spoke of INTP women from several countries around the globe, not just the US- I wasn't attentive.

                    "I don't think INTP women would fit into any culture well, even in a matriarchal one. We would be black sheeps anywhere, which is too bad, because we have potential to become great lovers according to the previous article ("rational sex"?). LOL. "

                    Yes, well, it's probably because we are the brainiest of them all. According to one site I read, INTPs are actually the brainiest of all the NTs(rationals), but rate lower, I take it..and I guess that's because they just don't fit in the capitalist society. I think INTPs are basically the least instinct-driven and most conscious human beings. They rarely willingly enter a competition or even bother to notice social games and hierarchy, instead focusing on their own drives and visions.

                    We are interested in the sharpening of the mind-pure and simple, thoughts and analysis for the sake of thoughts and analysis, which can be interpreted as counter-productive, on one hand, since there's a chance an INTP won't get to put their brainpower to good use, but, on the other hand, unlike the other rationals, who are driven to make their mark and find a place in the world, INTPs are uncorrupted and undeterred in their pursuit for "knowledge", which is why they give a high percentage of geniuses.

                    "I wonder if "distrustful" "defensive" "distant" "weary" "unfriendly" and "resentful" demeanor is actually reinforced through upbringing of an INTP woman. Being socially more awkward than F types, she may keep receiving negative reinforcements during her childhood and adolescence for how she naturally behaves. Hmmmm."
                    yes, I am inclined to think that upbringing definitely leaves its mark.


                    • I can relate to a lot of the posts,,,I also have followed my own path in life,,,and i tend to look at women as equals, where most relationships seem to be a version of ' power over" I tend to enjoy relations that are ' power with" where we feel stronger together than apart, tho I tend to enjoy my alone time,,,during my times from 17 to 30 I was very promiscous and enjoyed my times with a variety of women i was also selective in that overly shallow and made up women have no interest to me,,,I am not allergic to being in a relation, nor am I desperate to be in one,,,I am an open person tho I can slip in and out of a room whith barely a ripple and sometimes depending on the energies, people will look,,,

                      regarding our ways of being the black sheep, sometimes we have to accept that we have to be who we are according to our natures and live our lives the best we can and enjoy it while we are here, life is too short ,, enjoy your selves,,,
  • I'm an INTP female! I don't really understand other women (like how they always need to bring someone to go to the bathroom with them!) They also do not get me and find me weird in general because I'm so aloof. I guess my problem with being an INTP is that I do not fit in. However, I get along with people very easily.
    • Unsu...
       
      Never understood the bathroom thing either :p

      I've always gotten along well with people but sometimes they'll complain I don't show enough enthusiasm... "Don't you ever get excited about *anything*?" they ask (The answer's yes, it just takes a lot).

      Sometimes people try to shock me into being spontaneous but it never works lol
  • Rex
    Rex
    offline 0
    I am an INTP woman.

    The biggest issue I have is with dating... I feel like it's near impossible to get myself "out there'' (whatever that means) to find a guy.

    DO ANY OF YOU HAVE ADVICE? Ugh... even though I'm so independent, I can get lonely.


    Also, sometimes people call me "mean" but I suspect only in a teasing way. I hope. hah.
  • Unsu...
     
    Hi. I am responding to the original query, "What sort of difficulties/behavior problems have you experienced as an INTP woman?" and haven't read any of the prior responses ... that being said,

    My greatest difficulty is that I am a woman who perceives and lives in the world slightly differently than others, who are can be shocked and surprised at my off-beat (to theirs) choices, lifestyle, and values. I have few rules other than acknowledging Grace (adding unto) and Karma (energy expands). I like thinking of myself as a Sethian Black Sheep (Jane Roberts & Seth, Nature of Personal Reality, etc.). I like thinking of Everyone as Creators with the Power to POP (Pour Our Power) into various realities simultaneously ... I think Dr. Amit Goswami is a brilliant man and you and I have been around For Ever several times :)

    I don't take much seriously. Life or Death. I have a bit of a difficult time with my emotions - the subtle and the intensely powerful ones. I like interesting sex and eroticism, don't understand "normal" women and relationships much at all, and my friends, almost exclusively men, are as private and secretive as I am. Love is total and complete freedom.
    • As an INTP woman, I'm almost always misunderstood. I find people most of the time don't get me at all. The truth is that it's hard being an INTP woman in my opinion.

      My "Spock-like" way of relating to people causes those closest to me to assume that I'm cold, have no emotions, that I'm not "able to be close" to people. There must be some reason I'm like this. Is it the traumatic and abusive childhood I had? Yes, that must be it! She's been left cut-off from her emotions. She must be "blocked" emotionally. Yes, there's something wrong with her. She doesn't act like other women.

      True, my childhood sucked. But my INTP personality type isn't caused by child abuse. I'd have been an INTP regardless of my upbringing. If being an INTP is caused by child abuse, there'd be more than 1% of us around. Trying to explain to people that "No, I'm fine, really, and normal. I do have emotions. I'm just a rare personality type" makes people think I'm rationalizing my "disfunction." (And speaking of Spock, as a child I admired his Vulcan thinking and remember wanting to be like that!)

      I've spent many years really loving my intelligence but still wishing I could "be like other women." I'm past that now but I've had to adapt to a world that doesn't understand INTP women. I tone down my INTP-ness to not look like a "know-it-all." I know that I know more than other people most of the time but I just keep what I know to myself. I have no wish to appear arrogant or make anyone feel inadequate.

      In some ways life would be easier being another type. And yet, the truth is I really do like how I think. I love seeing the bigger picture. I love the fact that there's always something interesting to think about. My mind is never idle. Everyday is interesting and wonderful to me. I am never bored. I've had to adapt to the world around me and accept that there will always be a sort of loneliness that goes with being an INTP woman. Despite the difficulties, I wouldn't want to be any other personality type.
      • Unsu...
         
        Me, too!

        Spock? *SWOON!* What a guy :D
        My mind never slows down, I'm thinking even when I'm sleeping!, and I LUV IT :D
        I love being unique and different - I *always* see what others miss, it's OBVIOUS to me!

        Wouldn't change myself for all the $ in the world. Being INTP is the greatest gift I ever gave myself (besides putting Scorpio in the right places in my chart!).
  • Hi Jen-

    I am INTP woman. Ended up finding tribe.net by mistake after taking MBTI for my company and looking some stuff up. So great to find out about INTP/women issues. Makes so much sense!

    Kate
  • I am also an INTP female. I've tested as INTP on a number of occasions over the years, and my T ratio has always been 100%. I relate to much of what has been posted on this thread.
    I'm a very masculine, 'cold' personality, but I've learned that people generally expect sensitive and caring interactions with females, so always the chameleon, I've figured out how to be that person when I need to be. I work in a very socially demanding environment (customer service), and it has been difficult and very tiring for me to be that attentive, personable, and warm persona. I do a fairly good job at it, though, after much practice and several rough patches. I like to encourage myself to try things that are difficult for me, and I do feel that it has been rewarding to push back that INTP shell, at least in some parts of my life.
    At work, I am regularly singled out, for no obvious reasons other than my intensity, my unusual nature, and the obvious fact that I am "not like the others". That factor alone is one of the biggest difficulties I've had because I have historically lamented that perhaps it is me that is wrong/unliked/weird... and that if only I could change, things would be better. So I've tried changing. It has been fairly unsuccessful; futile pursuits that aren't grounded in reality often are. Through that process, however, I've learned much about other people... what they want, what makes them un/comfortable, how other types work... And that insight has provided much understanding, leeway, and allowance for others personalities. I don't think I'm "better than" other types, but I am remarkably more intelligent, more precise, and put the whole of myself behind my intentions. So in my way, I am really interesting and valuable, and if I exist, then therefore there is a "place for me in this world". My favorite times are when I am alone, and have full access to information, i.e. internet access. Then I can putter around, drink coffee, let my mind go absolutely wild in an open way, and there is no one around to judge me for being so focused and dreamy simultaneously.

    In terms of gender, I'm interested to learn so many INTP women identify as tomboys. I have come to the conclusion that I am essentially a male minded person in a female body, and I'm primarily attracted to masculine qualities. I guess this makes me a "gay dude in a chicks body"...-something a friend of mine said once. But it makes for uncomfortable social relations at times because so many people are very intimidated by me, and either want me to get the f**k away from them, or they want me to dominate them/dominate me, or something else entirely. Sexual relations are always complicated, intellectually based, and yet somehow routinely fleeting. It is difficult for me to form lasting and deep emotional relationships, and when I fall in love with someone, I have become irrevocably attached to them. My emotional life does not like to be torn asunder by those I love so much leaving, so in general, I cultivate fairly shallow relationships to prevent further, totally overwhelming and nonsensical emotional reactions originating from myself. My emotions are often out of control, and completely baffling... for someone who understands so much about herself and the world, to have no rooted understanding of what the f**k I'm feeling... it can be very uncomfortable and ungrounding. (a note to any linguistics buffs in the house...I noticed how I suddenly began to use ellipsis when I turned to writing about my emotions...lol)

    Anyways. Great discussion, lots of interesting thoughts. Thanks for delving into this topic!
    • There are days, when i think i pin down personality types by their writing style. I think all the INTP's i've met use them frequently, generally in emotionally laden text. It's a fascinating tidbit.
  • amy
    amy
    offline 0
    Hey Jen,

    I have to say that I have found that being an INTP to be both positive and negative. In relationships I find that men enjoy that I require less emotional support but do on occasion have difficulty with my inability to read their emotional needs. They like that I am very straightforward. I do have difficulty with my female relationships. I am an architecture student and find the other women in my program are very similar to me.

    For some reason my male partners are extroverts and thinkers. This is difficult because I do get exhausted with groups of people. The other difficulty is that some men do tire of my ability to argue--but for the most part if they can't hack it then we really don't have a chance. I love smart men and this is ascertained quickly.

    As an INTP we are rather easy going and that works well for meeting folks. I have gotten better with being with groups and admit to getting a drink to limber me up to hang with people. I'm not an alcoholic--but this does help me a lot the once a month or so when I need to hang with a large group.

    Overall, knowing myself has been the best thing and knowing when I have reached the boiling point with people. I am currently dating a man who I think is an ENTJ--so far so good. He is from time to time frustrated with my inability to read him but loooves that I can handle an arguement. I think men love argumentative females--at least most of the men I have encountered. Also, it has been a great way to cull undesireables. I once met a man who criticized photography (I had my Hasselblad hanging off my neck). This was some sort of weird dismissive come-on. I argued, and he ran off. Jerk avoided! Men who respect women, respect that you can hold your own.


    in short, there are some really great things about being an INTP female and don't let others tell you otherwise.
    • well i see it on the internet, and it seems pretty bad. But i think is pretty great being an intp women. I'm for one have nurtured my feeling function since i was little, because i feel the importance from the fact I only have sisters so i have to relate with them. Even though it make me went through a hideous stage of mental illness (seriously, i was diagnose with paranoid schizophrenia)when i was in high school.
      but if i review it now, my whole experience as an intp in adolescent are quite satisfying. I got good grades, i participated in a lot of school activities. I was well known to my peers as this eccentric girl, in a good way. Because I know I'm not, and will never be really good in the 'touchy feely' game and become as expected in society, I develop my own unique personality and feel proud of it!
      So no one really hates me though no one really become vary close, but I accept that. At least I'm not making 'spectacles of my self.
      Maybe it's because my family never really have a problem with my differences, when I was a kid all my family love and respect me. They gave me choices rather then obedience, letting me pursuit things that I want without making any unrealistic lines that's involve feelings.
      So I feel pretty good right now, despite so many other pursuits I feel quite content of my self.
      But still boyfriends is another mischief, they are many guys asking me out. But I like to play with them so in the end they are like 'she's evil' and stuff but it didn't really matter. I have my own taste and didn't found it yet, and it's pretty common for girls like me :D
      hope you solve your problems as an intp, and keep in mind, be happy! The main thing that made people dislike INTP's because they are very cynical...sometimes seeing things in rose colored kalaidescope will give you more points of view to analyze which is the thing that comes second nature to us!
  • A few observations:

    First, I love INTP females, as grammatical errors of any sort are nearly nonexistent within all the replies as well as the OP. It's simply so irritating when stereotypes of females are affirmed in the form of sucky internet language usage.

    Second, what's the deal with INTP females who do have healthy to abundant self confidence? Derived from both personal perception and male (or female!) affirmation? One of those females who gets ready to go out and is completely satisfied with her appearance? Personally, I don't exhibit many insecurities and am very comfortable with myself.

    Third, Has anyone ever had the "what did you think of me when you first saw/met me" conversation with anyone after a suitable distance from your initial introduction to a lover? I can't remember another response besides "bitchy" or more politely, "detached". But in the same breath, I was "intriguing", "mysterious", "sexy". After, they're so surprised that I was nice (as I practice, quite religiously, the Golden Rule even if it's occasionally forced), witty and "actually able to hold a conversation."

    Fourth, It seems as though as an INTP you're either uncaring about your personal appearance or quite immaculate about it. I am neither. I can dig some fashion and I put effort into my appearance, although I've got my makeup thing down to around 5 minutes and don't wear a ton. I will concede that if it took longer than 5 minutes my attention span would run out and it would become more "routine," which I despise.

    Fifth, I read somewhere that when an INTP female goes for a long-term relationship and trusts their partner enough to let them into their inner intellectual mind (only because it's often so hard for INTP females to verbalize emotions/complex theories, so we tend to just choose not to) we give it our all. Affection, loyalty, everything. I've now found that partner, but all guys I dated before I'd keep at arm's length and I therefore came across as fairly aloof, which only seemed to attract them more. At which point I'd cut and run, never looking back (another trait of INTP relationships!).

    Sixth, I don't play games and am straightforward with males about what I want. I don't play the "you should KNOW why I'm mad" game or participate in passive aggressive tactics. I never emasculate a man and prefer to be subordinate about social outings/dinners out (yet another INTP specific trait).

    Seventh, We're not supposed to be very appreciative as a rule. I never have been, but have met a guy who I am genuinely appreciative about for things he does frequently. Frequently like, a few times a day. I understand that a guy wants to be appreciated and complimented. And mine are always genuine. So is it that I actually love someone that I pull out all the stops unconsciously and enjoy seeing him happy as I never did previous to this love?

    Last and possible most important question I have (which I've analyzed over and over but never really verbalized): have any of you females found it hard to maintain female friendships due to the fact that you are prone to desired bouts of solitary time? Like, you don't call them for a few days/weeks and then when you do they're personally offended and therefore unreceptive to your advances?


    I NEED INTP FEMALE FRIENDS, haha.
    • "First, I love INTP females, as grammatical errors of any sort are nearly nonexistent within all the replies as well as the OP. It's simply so irritating when stereotypes of females are affirmed in the form of sucky internet language usage. "

      Tell me about it..I have just started studying for an exam I have on Saturday(he-he."just" started..ok, not funny.), and I have found 4 very badly used words in the first 10 pages..I had to get up and make myself a cup of tea every time, because I got so mentally distracted by the annoyance. And the book is actually for a class I took in analyzing a company's financial position.
      I am leaving half of the luck I need to pass this exam to divine providence, because half of it is as much as I can study, with my dissipated mind.
      Which brings me to a question..I read INTPs find it easiest to focus on something..that is really not true for me. I think I might have ADD, in fact..I have never been able to sit at a desk for more than 30 minutes straight, in my life..and I don't think I have been able to actually focus on one subject, mentally, for more than a few minutes at a time..but that might also have something to do with the INTP's need to "link" every new piece of information to as many bits of information that spin through their minds at that particular time..it's like trying to match a new piece to the puzzle...whether the task requires you to, or not, is, I'm afraid, irrelevant...lol.
      Like studying for exams..so tedious.

      But, anyway, I also have been meaning to ask you INTP folk something (maybe this is especially true for women, again)...have you ever been accused of not "knowing how to live", or is it just sad little me..?
      I must admit I can't remember ever fully enjoying things like..going to the disco, getting drunk, kissing other girls(or men), or even more benign stuff, like playing poker, or board games, or..playing roles/acting...maybe I'm just depressed or something.
      I used to like drawing and playing tennis/bedmington, though.
    • I need INTP female friends too! I'm a philosopher-theologian. Really into the speculative aspects of these fields, which are mostly male-dominated. Have you found other female INTP friends since posting, and if so what strategy worked for you?
  • Eve
    Eve
    offline 0
    Just came across this thread and am very glad to see other women with the same struggles I've dealt with throughout my life.

    I share the same experience with not fitting in with the girls. When I was in highschool, regardless of how hard I tried the girls all seemed to hate me. Eventually I stopped trying to be someone else and found contentment in being myself and being alone, although I continued to struggle with feelings of inadequacy and I was made to believe that I was so boring and uninteresting that no girls wanted to hang out with me. With guys though, I have always gotten along with at much greater ease. All my close friends are men and I have no female friends. I don't feel like I need to pretend to be someone else to impress men and in general they accept me for who I am. I have gotten comments so many times from men that they find me very interesting and that I am unlike any other woman they've met. In general, I dislike women my age but get along well with women quite significantly older than me. I find most women to be fake, attention-seeking, and they tend to have the most stupid and meaningless conversations that I just can't be bothered to participate in.

    Now that I'm out in the workforce, I find that my INTP traits are getting in the way of my career progression. I find it difficult to establish connections with people, which can prove fatal when it comes to office politics. I also don't know how to 'play the game', and am always left out of the loop as a result. I am also quiet in meetings and am reluctant in speaking my mind. These are aspects of being an INTP that I am currently learning to change.

    Sometimes I also feel like I am more masculine than feminine. I like video games, I used to play with batman and other action figures when I was a kid, I like jokes on farts and poops, I have a very messy room and it doesn't bother me, I like electronics and gadgets. The way I talk sometimes can be so harsh that I hurt people's feelings without realizing it. I am able to act womanly though. I can giggle and act feminine if I want to but it's not the real me. However, I always care about how I look and I always dress nice wherever I go - which does not fit well with the traditional INTP description.
  • Well, as an INTP female, I find it hard to create relationships of any kind- I'm suspicious that there is a game that is going on whenever someone is friendly to me, or totally oblivious to whenever someone likes me. Without using my feelings (or when my feelings are too strong) I push people away, trying to isolate myself. Most people don't understand me, or (especially guys) are terrified of me after talking to me, though because I'm "hot" they'll try to get to know me, realize I'm not interested (or fail to communicate it successfully) and become friends after a long time. However, I can never tell if a person is just my "aquaintence" or a "friend".
  • Hi! im an INTP woman as well actually! Some behavior issues is that i tend to have TOO strong of an opinion. I also can seem quite stubborn if i;m not in a good mood. Also i get paranoid easily because of my mind... I RARELY show/express my emotions. What are some things you experience? :D it's nice knowing another INTP!
  • Hey Jen ,
    Tammy here. I just found out I was a INTP. I was wondering why some people didn't like me or understand me. As certain senerios kept happening with certain kinds of people! If I ignored, didn't speak it didn't matter these people sought me out to cause problems like ..undermining, blaming me for things that were other peoples jobs even, would come over to my section for no reason to play the your 5 and this is yellow garbage. They were extroverted women. Men who are confident see me as there equal and ask me opinion on things. But the extroverted women are unbelievable. I think alot of these women feel they can cover who they really are by being loud. I think we are mysterious to them and are trying to get a response weather good or bad out of us.I am the creative type INTP. I am a designer/inventor. What about you, you rare bird. LOL

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